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What is your purpose? What were you meant to accomplish in your lifetime? Are you living life to your fullest?

In this episode of The New Music Industry Podcast, I interview Jules Schroeder of Unconventional Life. She shares how she came to understand her purpose in this world, how she encourages others to live a life of passion, what we can do to find a platform for our message, and much more.

Podcast Highlights:

• 00:14 – Introductions
• 00:25 – How would you describe what you do?
• 02:08 – Multipotentialites and the traditional model of success
• 04:10 – Creating a connection through passion
• 06:16 – Near death experience
• 10:24 – Spiritual experiences and living life to the fullest
• 15:05 – What does music entrepreneurship mean to you?
• 20:04 – Being unreasonable
• 21:46 – The unconventional life is becoming the conventional life
• 26:37 – What is your number one tip for building a podcast audience?
• 30:28 – How do you find a platform for your message?
• 35:43 – Are there any books you recommend?
• 37:11 – Closing thoughts

Transcription:

The following transcript was generated using Descript.

David Andrew: Today I’m chatting with the founder of Unconventional Life, Jules Schroeder. How are you today, Jules?

Jules: I’m doing wonderful. Good to be here. How are you doing?

David Andrew: I’m doing great. Thank you for asking. So you’re an entrepreneur, musician, speaker, and podcaster. I’m sure there are other things you do and other titles you have, but just so we can create a bit of a context for my listeners, how would you describe what you do?

Jules: Yeah. Um, well at times, uh, people have come to my website and said, it’s a little ADD. It’s kind of sporadic. Like, who are you? Cause you’ll see stuff like, On my Instagram, you’ll see travel photos. You’ll see me leading workshops. You’ll see me in the recording studio performances. You’ll see me snowboarding.

I was a sponsored snowboarder for a while. And I think at the essence of [00:01:00] it, I’m a very multi passionate. And for so long, I used to think that was a problem that, you know, like I like doing all these different things and that I didn’t have much focus. And what I actually realized is that as I’ve learned to own all of the different areas of self expression, Literally created my company unconventional life almost as a, a home to embody the non traditional it’s allowed me to, uh, not only create more impact in the world, but also just have a lot of more fun in the process.

And so, you know, for me, I’m someone that really believes that this conventional frame we’ve been inherited, you know, that I inherited, which was, you know, go to school. Get good grades, get into a good college, get a good job and then get a better job and then eventually die, um, is outdated and there’s a million and one ways to make money in this world and to create a life that you love in this world and I love storytelling and I love giving people permission using my own self as an example so that more of us can do what we want, um, with our lives and ultimately take these gifts that we have inside of us and really create structures and, uh, ways to, to play, um, so that we have more fulfillment and more fun.

David Andrew: Mm-Hmm. And by way of a couple of comments. You know, I think that movement is beginning to grow. The whole thing about Multipotentialite, I think Emily Watnick at uh, putty like.com, that was one of the first times I’d heard it’s okay to be, you know, involved in whole variety of different things and.

And pursue what it is that you want to do and enjoy every aspect of that, which is really cool. And then the other thing that you touched on was that traditional model of success that so many people still subscribe to. It’s actually incredible to me, but my first exposure to something outside of that was network marketing.

And I’ve talked to others who share that experience and some people have had it. you know, huge success in network marketing. I never did. I would love to say that I exceeded in every area of life. And that hasn’t necessarily been the case. I felt like I felt more so that everything that I was involved in pushed me to what I’m doing today.

Push me closer and closer and closer towards the music entrepreneur HQ and being engaged in that side of things. So everybody’s story is unique in that regard, but it’s, it’s cool to hear that. I think a lot of people do need to hear that and just to wake up to that reality.

Jules: Absolutely. And especially like as creatives, you know, I find that part of being the artist is one that allows emotions or forms of expression or gifts to flow through them.

And often I’ve felt misunderstood. In my life many times, uh, just because of how I interacted with the world and how I create in the world, it’s just different. Um, and being that artist side and even how do I make money and how do I deal with the practicality of life and how do I deal with those conversations?

I find, um, there could be a lot of misunderstoodness and I think that’s part of the beauty of your podcast and conversations like this, that we’re not alone. Even if you felt like the lone wolf or the odd one out, definitely another narrative that I really related to in my life. You know, it’s people like us coming together and saying, yeah, we’re different.

We, we process things differently, but in so many ways, we’re kind of like, it’s our, our superpower. It’s our advantage that we get to feel and create, um, in these capacities. At least that’s been true for me. So

David Andrew: It’s so true. And in some ways it’s actually really hard to avoid like I’ve put together videos before for patreon another thing that I never did very well at I might try it again, but Uh, they would just say like, Oh, you’re kind of sabotaging yourself in this video.

Like, why are you putting yourself down? And I said, I don’t understand what you’re, there’s no part of my language that I use where I’m putting myself down. But you’re right. It’s like, you really do have to think about how you’re coming across to, to others, but as you begin to find what it is that you’re doing, I think it becomes easier that.

Passion just begins to show through.

Jules: Absolutely. And I find too, am I like, I have a slogan that’s like, word creates our world. It is through what we say and how we share that our world and our opportunities and things get created. And, uh, you know, I find so often it’s like, I’m not having the success that I want to have used to be a conversation that I’d have, or I’m not getting the results that I want to have.

And I find most of the time, if you’re hearing this and that is something, you know, a narrative for you too, is that most of the time people just don’t know who they can count on you for. What you’re actually doing and how to support you. And I find that in your sharing, in your willingness to expose yourself and be vulnerable and put yourself out there and actually tell people what you’re up to in the world.

It gives that invitation and opportunity for people to actually show up. And so often, you know, I talk to friends and Like I won’t make more money or I don’t have enough money. And I’m like, well, how many ways or invitations do you have for people to pay you? And they’re just like, you know, Oh, well, okay.

I could actually have, you know, um, explicit ways for people to contribute. So definitely another area that I like as well.

David Andrew: Totally. And I’ve shared about that on the podcast before, just saying like, there probably are people. Willing to spend two, 300 with you at a time just for some kind of packaged up deal of all of your catalog, or maybe even a thousand dollars if you offered like a package of performances for them.

You know, it’s, it’s pretty incredible when you begin to think about it. It’s just, you have to put that offer out there or else nobody can buy it.

That’s what exists. So many great rabbit trails we could go down, but, uh, I wanted to touch on this for sure.

Your bio mentions a near death experience that caused you to identify what you were meant to do. So talk about that experience.

Jules: Yeah. So that happened three years ago, straight up, like had a near death experience. experience and launch this next phase of my life. That was, uh, that happened. It was, uh, about three years ago as a wakeboarding accident.

And, uh, I was out in Colorado and full on, um, just remember coming out of the MRI and the hospital and was approached by this white figure and six black shadow council member. And we had this conversation and it was Jules, you have more work to do in the world. Do you want to do it? And at the time they thought I might have been paralyzed.

I thought my neck might’ve been broken. And I just remember saying, yes, as long as I don’t come back as a vegetable. And literally in that next moment, got zap back into my body. I felt this energy forge my neck back together and shoot down my spine. And the moment that I woke up, I feel like everything altered.

And, uh, it was very much before it was like life before. It felt like it was being created by me in life. Since feels like it’s been coming through me. And, uh, you know what I mean by that specifically is that it’s like allowing myself to be an instrument for life and allowing things to come through rather than being this person who I was for so many years before I had success at a young age, ran my first six figure company at 18 and seven figure company at 22, had a business puzzle.

Partner embezzled a bunch of money at 24, went to 200, 000 worth of debt. Like I was very much on a mission of one success peak to another success peak before, and I could never actually appreciate the success I had. And I always felt like I had something to prove, like no matter what I did, it never felt like it was enough.

No matter what I was creating, I never felt satisfied or fulfilled. It was like, if I could just make this amount of money and then I make it and then it would be like, oh, well that still doesn’t feel like enough. And it was like a false summit after a false summit. And honestly, having a business partner and has a little bunch of money at the age of 24 and lose all the societal things that were taught to value of what’s important in terms of success, in terms of money and career and status.

And those things I got to this beautiful rock bottom place and it was like, well, who am I without all of these things? And, um, you know, that near death experience was just a year after that. And I felt like it literally was the, the nail in the coffin almost that catalyzed me into this next phase. And, you know, I just remember it was about, you know, Three weeks after the accident.

And I get a call from the UN and it’s like, Hey, like we would love to invite you to be a global ambassador for education, like at the UN, can you be here in three weeks? And I was like, still in a neck brace. I’m like, this isn’t really the best time, but okay. And so I said yes to going to the UN and I was on my way there.

And then four weeks later. Forbes was like, Hey, you know, we heard what you’re doing. We’d love to invite you to Forbes 30 under 30. Flash forward shortly after that. Um, they’re like, do you want to start writing for us? And I had no journalism experience, no blogging experience. And I was just like, you know what?

I want to tell stories. I was like, I have an idea for a podcast. And they’re like, let’s partner and make this a podcast. You know, Forbes 30 under 30 and call it unconventional life. And I just remember being outside the hot springs in Iceland, like launching my first ever blog post in podcasts of the world.

Like, Holy shit. I’m either totally crazy or I’m really onto something. Like, what am I doing? Like, how did I get here? And, um, it ended up being really successful. Um, and you know, since that moment, like we’ve reached millions of people in over 75 different countries through the unconventional life podcast and through the Forbes column and then has shifted into these live events that we do where we bring together creatives and entrepreneurs and artists, um, you know, for these masterminding events all over the world.

Like we’ve got one coming up in Bali. And so more than anything, when I look back to that wakeboarding accident, you know, back in 2015, it’s just like life. Keeps flowing through and my ability now in this new operating system to just say, yes, I want to be used as an instrument. I find we all have that in our capacity and just to trust into allow rather than to prove and go after.

And it’s like this hustle culture. I think there’s a lot of beauty, um, in the space and just the receiving that can often get missed. And that’s at least where my access point for growth and success comes from.

David Andrew: Yeah, that’s incredible. And again, so many rabbit holes, easily go down there when I will just say, you know, I can relate to the spiritual experience.

I’ve had some myself. There was one time. I went through the earthquake in Japan. It was the Hanshin Awaji earthquake. It was, I think it was a 7. 2 magnitude. So yeah, pretty serious earthquake and, you know, got shaken up at 5 40 in the morning or something like that. And then we’re walking through the kitchen downstairs and, there was glass all over the floor because the China had broken.

And even though my mom had said, put your socks on, put your shoes on, put everything on. I just walked across it without anything. Wow. And I think my sister did as well. And we were both completely unharmed. So we don’t have any explanation for that beyond like adrenaline and, uh, Maybe some protectors, some unseen protectors.

Jules: Yeah. I mean, and I, I don’t know if you find it to be true for you too, but for me, like one thing around that and how I even relate to death and like what happens after we die, like I had this visceral experience and I just call it the frequency of love and its highest, most pure form. And for me getting to like touch that experience, it’s like one, it was like, no doubt in my mind that there’s something more than just.

Living, um, after experiencing that energy, but ultimately this new relationship to like having our time be complete when it’s complete and it being a choice and in so many ways, like breathing and living in this body, like we’re all choosing to be alive, whether you’re consciously aware of it or not, and I’ve gotten So attuned to that as purpose, not necessarily clarity of like, now I know exactly why I’m here and exactly what I’m doing, but just the openness that I’m here for more as an instrument of service.

And I find sometimes it’s in those moments, at least it was for me with my experience that it was like, okay, wow, there is something bigger. There is, you know, I’m more in terms of our time. And you know, I, unfortunately I had three friends of mine pass away over the summer, um, in a waterfall accident. And it came out of nowhere.

They were some of the first to ever be on YouTube and on Instagram. They had this company called High on Life and over like 10 million followers and, uh, they were literally hiking in British Columbia and one of them slipped into this pool. Her boyfriend went after him and the other one went after them and all three got swept 100 feet over a waterfall.

And to have them like all in their, like, you know, late twenties, early thirties, to have them go out in that way, it just, for me, it was like, how else do you explain something like that happening? Like three bright, so alive, in tune with themselves, um, in the world and then just for them to die in the same way that they were inspiring.

It feels like it really was like an ultimate fulfillment of some of their mission here. And so I’ve just really learned to have a lot of gratitude. For the days that we have and ultimately like really look at it. It’s like, how can you just enjoy the day to day moment to moment experience of just playing the game of being alive?

Like one of the questions I ask myself is like, what is my direct, like momentary experience of joy that I’m having? Like not this like eventual when I get this paycheck or when I get to do this trip or when I have this thing, like how can I in each moment actually do things that experience joy and. It wasn’t until I was on my way back from South Africa a few months ago where I decided to list out everything that I’m doing in my life on a one to 10, 10 being like max, like super joy and one being just like need to stop.

This is like soul sucking me right away and realize that most of what I was doing and operating with actually was around a six or a seven. And when I really told the truth to myself, my moment to moment joy was mostly coming from CrossFit, from playing music and, uh, from performing and speaking on stages.

And I started to restructure. Elements in my life to actually have more of that and like, lo and behold, fulfillment increases, opportunity increases, success increases, um, overall happiness increases, but I find even for those hearing this, you know, I find sometimes it’s the thing that keeps you up in the middle of the night or the thing that you think about in the shower on the way to work.

It’s just like this desire for more. That lives in us. And so I find, and you know, I offer this as an experiment, you know, is to get related to where your time’s going and, uh, and how it connects. And even that one to 10 exercise was so revealing for me. And it gave me so much in terms of like how to day to day, just enjoy what the point of this whole thing is.

David Andrew: That’s super helpful. And one of my philosophies is that where is happiness? It’s in there. There isn’t, there is no future. There is no past. You don’t live in either of those. So if you’re not happy and fulfilled now, in a sense, you’re never fulfilled and happy. So, so when will you be happy? There is no, when it’s only now and tomorrow is just another now.

When do you get there? So we’ve had the opportunity to chat a couple of times and you’ve expressed your fascination with music entrepreneurship. So what does music entrepreneurship mean to you?

Jules: Yeah. Oh, I love this question. So for so long, like I would call it like, you know, we’re all familiar with like the starving artists or like the struggling artist conversation.

And for some reason, like musicians and entrepreneurs, I feel like it really comes from the same place, which is just creativity. It’s just creation. And for some reason, there’s been an inherited conversation that You know, with musicians and like, it’s more around struggling and with entrepreneurs, there’s more success and more money involved.

And if you’ve actually been an entrepreneur for any time, you know, like there’s massive struggle in both. It takes bold courage to be an artist and an entrepreneur. And so I’ve really seen this segmentation in terms of how we, we hold these identities. Um, and even how I’ve held these identities. You know, I remember I was like 18 and.

I grew up, my dad worked wall street in New York City, oldest of five girls. And when I went to college, he was like, like, he like literally was like, you’re not going to pursue music. He was like, that’s too risky. There’s no money in that. And like, you don’t have the talent and only 1 percent and whatever, whatever can make it.

And I really believed him at that age. And for me, I was like, music has to be this hobby. And then I got really, really good at business. But then simultaneously, every time I did music, that was actually what made me feel the most alive. And interestingly enough, when I brought my music into my business, I became more memorable and more people actually want to work with me and more people were like, Hey, what are you doing?

And so I realized that it was in the integration, um, that the two exists. And for me, this music entrepreneur is this like modern day iteration of what it looks like, at least for me to be. Owning of both gifts. It’s like someone that gets to create in life through just that through creativity. And I find in my own life, you know, I impact so many people, but it comes through my heart.

And I find that’s the gift. We have as artists as music. Cuts through the logical filters, it cuts through the walls, it cuts through the masks and creates feeling. And if I’ve learned anything over these years, if people remember feeling from an experience, you might hear a great talk, you might learn something great on this podcast, but more than anything of what I’m even saying, you’ll remember how you felt.

And that feeling, like, that’s what I get interested in creating. And I think that’s what we get to create as musicians is. Spaces that create and move people that transform and transmit and heal just by what we’re, what we’re being and how we’re embodying. And so I focus a lot of my work now in my entrepreneurship from that premise of how do I create feeling.

And so often like I’ll lead an event and open it with a song or I’ve gotten to be, you know, places like the UN or literally like I have, one of the things I do is improv so I can make up full song from the fly and I’ve, you know, channeled literally like in the general assembly, like a 15 minute set. Not knowing what I’m going to say or sing.

And then like, let’s do it in the key of a minor, let’s do it this way. And allowing my gifts to come through. Um, but coming from this place of creativity and feeling first. And then as a result, I’ve learned, I’ve been able to build a whole business around it. And I think in today’s world. It’s not just, can you be good at business?

And it’s not just, can you create art? It’s like very much, at least I’ve found to be so impact driven. And what are you using your vehicle as good for? And, you know, we’re actually creating this music impact summit coming up here in a few months where we’re bringing together some of the brightest.

Artists, Grammy award winning artists from different parts of the world that are using their music as vehicles to really impact the conversation, using music as tools to open people’s hearts so that you can then literally connect to people’s minds and move initiatives and things that you care about, or things that, like, It’s time shift in the world for those things to actually start happening.

And so I love being at the intersection of those two and the ways of how can we take us as artists, our superpowers, how can we use our tools to open people up so that we can really make change in the world. And, uh, you know, music’s like definitely a big thing. Um, and one that, It has been actually recently in the last, like, a few months that I’ve called it Project Grammy, where it’s literally like a game that I’m playing, um, of how like to actually use my music as a way of like, what does it take to get nominated for a Grammy?

And what does it take to actually set the tone for that? And how do you play with that in a nonlinear timeline? And I find, um, this last piece I’ll say is that at least I’ve been taught. Things are traditionally supposed to take a lot of time and only the very few that are really, really, really good who get discovered off of some random like strike of fate make it.

And that’s so not true anymore. Um, that it’s really so much about us creating what we actually want in sharing about it through our words. Um, and so I’ve been enjoying this project Grammy as it’s been manifesting. So stay tuned for the next like year or so when, uh, when that all comes to fruition, but beyond of it actually like happening, I find it’s just in playing the game that, um, the magic happens in so many different ways.

And, um, yeah, it’s been one that I’ve, I’ve enjoyed playing with in my own life for sure.

David Andrew: Yeah. I mean, if you want to succeed in music, you kind of have to be unreasonable, right?

Jules: Completely.

David Andrew: Yeah. My, my mentor calls me pragmatic and this is because, you know, I have all these side gigs that I’ve, that I’m always working on in addition to, to building my business and making sure there’s a revenue stream.

But you know, I’m also, he also points me as an example of somebody who’s able to sustain himself completely just working from home. And. And that’s an incredible. opportunity in itself. But the truth of the matter is I just find a lot of joy in creating, you know, in content marketing, we talk about, okay, align it to the vision of the company, align it to the business objectives and to your target customer.

All that is super important, but oftentimes I just write for the joy of writing has nothing to do with those objectives, except to, you know, maybe raise some awareness of what I’m doing and the content I’m creating. So, uh, In that way, I’m totally unreasonable because I want to enjoy the jury.

Jules: Yeah. And being unreasonable is fun.

Like I, at least for me, like I like when people are like, yeah, well, that’s just not possible. Like that just doesn’t happen. I’m like, really? Who says? You know? Like why? Why not? Why is it not you? And this is for those hearing this. Like if you really are living with something deep in you and you’re like, it just couldn’t happen.

It’s just not me. Maybe for that person, but not for me. Like, it’s like, why not you? Like this is like our time now. This is your time now. And, uh, and you have everything you need, you know, like even in listening to this, like, if this is the message that you get from this, you have everything that you need to do exactly what you want and, uh, play being reasonable.

David Andrew: Totally agree. You’ve mentioned to me before that the unconventional life is becoming the conventional life. I tend to agree with you, but what do you mean by that?

Jules: Yeah. So when I started unconventional life, it was like I said, I wanted more stories, more permission for people to see like all the different ways and career paths.

That you know, are being like embodied, like you literally can work online from your computer anywhere. There’s so many different ways, like being a career as an influencer, being a career, um, even through patron or through various other platforms. And so, um, when I first got started, I remember when I graduated college and my dad was just like, like literally like fought it out with me.

He was like, there’s no way being an entrepreneur is so risky and this just doesn’t work. And, you know, even in the last, like, you know, however many years. To see more validation, more representation that that’s actually true. Um, I find we’re living in an interesting time right now, especially a lot of us as millennials, or even if you’re a little bit older, um, or even younger, where there is stuff that is happening, you know, in terms of these new paradigms shifting yet are, External reality hasn’t fully caught up yet.

Like there’s like conversations like this where it’s like, yeah, of course you can make a living doing that. Of course you can do these things. And yet there’s still all these inherited conversations of why it won’t work and why it’s risky and why you shouldn’t do that and why you’d be crazy and all this stuff that, you know, friends, family, media, et cetera, et cetera.

Yet, like, In five years from now, 10 years from now, it is my hope that like people are like unconventional life. Like what is unconventional life about? Like, this is just the way it is. Like when I think about like my younger siblings or even, you know, my own children that I’ll eventually have, it’s like thinking about it in that way of like, when they grow up, it’s like, this will just be the model.

And I find that we are pioneers. We are actively pioneering in this moment, the new model for people to step into, and it hasn’t been written. It hasn’t been done before. It is literally the new convergence of old and new meeting. And, um, it’s like the wild, wild west in some ways, like anything goes. It’s totally scary.

And there’s not much proof yet. Every single day through conversations like this, it is becoming more normalized. And so I find if you are a pioneer, and I imagine a lot of you listening might be, which is why you’re tuning into this kind of conversation. We’re writing it for those to come. We’re paving the way.

And it’s through our stories and through our actions and through our willingness to say, yeah, yes, I’m going to be a yes to being on the front lines, um, that this new conversations get to be pushed forward. And so, uh, yeah, it’s so exciting to kind of see that. And, you know, I’ve been jokingly, well, if we’re out of business in five years, then my mission was done.

You know, it’s like unconventional has like been shifted and then we’re good. So, uh, it’s yeah, a pleasure to participate in what’s happening. And at the same time, like a burden. You know, at times it can be like, at least for me really mentally, like, holy crap, like this is, this is real. I can bring up a lot of stuff.

Um, and I think it’s being in the dance of both of those that, uh, creates the, the upward trajectory forward, at least in my experience.

David Andrew: Yeah. I tend to think that entrepreneurship is more secure long term, but that’s just not the way people are thinking yet. Right on. I think it could, it’s going to continue to grow.

And the same thing could be said for me. You know, if music schools actually taught how to musicians to be successful, maybe I wouldn’t need to be doing what I’m doing, teaching marketing and all this other stuff, but I enjoy it and it gives me a purpose for sure.

Jules: Totally. And there’s no right way to do it.

There’s no perfect way. Like, you know, for so long, like I’ve, I’ve danced between having jobs to like conventional pieces. Like it doesn’t all have to be, there’s just everyone’s version looks so different. And, uh, I think there’s only right way is for you right now. And to just know that it’s all in service.

Like it all looks different at different pieces and points for all of us. And, uh, And, you know, I think the comparison epidemic can also be challenging sometimes, too, and just to be like, Oh, I’m just too old or like that person, like already has whatever, like they have it together. Maybe even you’re hearing this.

You’re like, she definitely has it together. Like, there’s just no way I’m like, I don’t have it together. But more than anything, What I do have is the ability to not have it together and be in action anyways. And that I think is really more of the skill and the gold is rather than being and having it together is how do you allow all of your humanity and your humility to be inside of you?

And how do you show up anyways? How do you feel the comparison epidemic and still be like, okay, yeah, that’s happening. And. I’m still going to take this like small action and I’m still gonna, you know, post this thing on Facebook or I’m still gonna whatever, whatever, whatever. Um, so yeah.

David Andrew: Yeah. Reminds me of blog post I’ve wrote, which was the root of all unhappiness is comparison.

So it brought me back to that, but I hear you. It’s, it’s kind of human nature to do now. There are people listening to this. I’m sure that are going to go, Oh, I should start my own podcast. Or I know part of my audience is, has podcasts of their own cause that’s part of their business model. So what is your number one tip for helping people build their podcast audience?

Jules: Yeah, I love this one. Um, you know, I think for me, Unconventional Life was never supposed to be a company. I really just wanted to tell stories and then it became like an accidental six figure revenue stream. Um, like one month in our first month, actually, we like, I was like, Oh, I could like do an event and invite people to it and talk about it on the podcast.

And then we sold it out in like seven weeks for 30 people to come to a business and a creative mastermind in Bali a few years ago, which is like where it all began. And, uh, what I found is our audience is really loyal and they’re really dedicated. And I think what really works. And at least on my podcast and unconventional life, you can find it on iTunes.

If you haven’t heard of it before, um, is really just like authenticity and storytelling. And giving value. And one of the things that I do with all of our guests, you know, even including, you know, we had you on our podcast as well is really looking like what at the end of each segment, like we do this thing called a giveaway where at the end of every episode, the listener gets to take something that they’ve learned from the guest and have an opportunity to win something to take it a step further.

It could be a book, it could be a course, it could be concert tickets. It could be, I mean, anything we’ve even had people give away Google glass. We’ve had people give away like Hollywood premieres stuff. Like it’s been. It’s been all across the board, but it’s a way to kind of give back to the listeners.

And it’s an amazing way to email build and to list build. And I find one of the big pieces is how do you take your listeners and then how do you ultimately put them on a trajectory that converts them into buyers? And so I said to myself, okay, great. Well, if someone’s listening to a segment and they’re getting a ton of value, what is something that would be a natural instinctive next step that they could then do is to want to keep participating in conversations with me.

So I said, what if we do these amazing giveaways, announce it on the podcast, podcast and tell the guests, Hey, tell us about the giveaway. And then how someone gets to win the giveaway is they come to our website, they enter their email address and we know we do a new one every week. So there’s always more opportunities to win.

Um, but more than that, we then get to start email list building and then. What I’ve done from there is we just send out every week. We air our episodes on Monday. We send out an email that says, Hey, here’s the next episode. And we’re rarely, we’re just in the business of adding value so that by the time we do decide we want to offer something, whether it’s, Hey, come to our event, or we’re actually in the process of building, you know, a podcast course of like how we’ve made podcast for entrepreneurs.

And it’s such a short period of time. Um, Like when we do have these initiatives, people are just, they know, like, and trust us so much that they, they’re like, Whoa, well, if you’re putting something out there and you never put something out there, like I got to check it out. And so, um, I think if I were to sum it up, you know, adding a lot of value, creating a really tangible flow to convert people from listeners into buyers or just into people that can more regularly interact in your community, um, makes a big difference.

And the giveaway was a really big piece for me. And then. Through your authenticity and your sharing and your discernment of being a filter of what’s appropriate and not appropriate in terms of like, what will actually be value versus what’s noise, um, gets people to trust you more. And I found that that’s worked really, really well for us.

And, uh, having a diversity of guests has also been really big too, and having a really large global international audience, which at least was important to me when I wanted to cultivate. Unconventional life.

David Andrew: Those are really great tips. And it’s helped me solidify some things in my mind around my podcast for sure.

I can now see the connection between that email list and growing that podcast audience in a way that I hadn’t quite seen before, even though I was doing, even though I was doing it. I was just like, Okay. I get it. Yeah.

Jules: Value added.

David Andrew: A little bit of an aha moment. So that’s great. And this is another thing I’m sure you could answer too.

There’s just a couple of questions left for you. People every day come to me wanting to contribute to the music entrepreneur HQ. You know, it’s clear that. They see a lot of value in finding a platform for their message and you found a platform for yourself on Forbes. So how would you suggest people go about finding a blog or publication that helps them grow their audience?

Jules: Great question. I think I almost would think about the question in more of a reverse order where instead of like going and finding, I find like. In who you are being and just in your sharing, see what naturally sticks and comes back to you. And so I can see it in a more concrete way where I have this practice in this tool that I call rapid visioning.

And in so many ways, I think about it like nonlinear reality creation. It’s like, how do you throw darts or how do you take actions? And then how do you get feedback and then indicate that for your next action? The next action in your next action. It’s like creating more on like a one, two, three, four basis rather than let me set this whole goal.

Like I want to have this amazing podcast and then be like, Holy crap. I don’t know how to start a podcast. I don’t know how to build a list. I don’t know how to add value. I don’t know how to find a platform. I don’t know how to whatever. And then literally like you have a whole mountain of reasons of why you can’t.

And then you’re just like, yeah, that’s a really good idea. And like a year goes by and nothing happens. You know, we can all relate to that, but rather to be like, okay, well, what is one thing I do know how to do? Like, Again, that’s like my step 10. Like, how do I come back to my step one? And then how do I take a bite size action there?

And then how do I iterate from there to there? It’s there, et cetera. And so case in point, um, in this, I find, you know, for those hearing this, if you want to find a way to amplify your message in your platform, I would just start throwing some darts. And that could look like doing a Facebook live. It could look like doing an Instagram video.

It could look like, you know, doing a little post on LinkedIn and just see what like that’s the action. What is it like to do the action? What feedback do you get? Maybe you’ll get a lot of engagement on something and you’ll be like, wow, that was so fun. Maybe you interview someone on your Facebook wall and you do a Facebook live and people are like, Oh my gosh, this was the best thing I’ve ever seen.

I’d love to do that with you again. When are you doing the next one? Or maybe people are like, wow, like no one tunes in and you’re like, yeah, that was a waste of time and that felt kind of awkward and I don’t really like that. And so I find it’s in dart throwing and experimenting that you’ll get feedback one on a personal level to know if you enjoyed it and if you liked it.

And I find that feedback is often overlooked or often taught to push through things. I find when you follow your highest excitement and what actually feels in aligned and energizing, it’s an indicator of where flow is. And it’s an indicator of where success will be rather than pushing through stuff. So that’s the first piece.

Notice how it feels for you. And then the second piece is just notice What kind of engagement that you’re getting from it, um, and, you know, it might be doing a Facebook live series where you’re like, wow, there’s got a lot of engagement. I want to keep going. It might look like reaching out to someone like you or someone else that, you know, and saying, Hey, like, I’d love to be on your podcast or I’d love to.

Do an article would you want to feature me or it might look at a few blogs that you look up to or? Publications and just say, you know See what they’re writing about and see what they’re doing and like could you see yourself being a fit there? And if you could maybe you reach out to an editor and then you You know, reach out and I always recommend doing a cold video pitch, not like a cold email pitch as someone that’s received like 300 pitches a month, like don’t send emails.

But if you can like even make a little video of like, I’m sure this is like email 301 that you’re getting. And here’s why, like, I think my story is really cool. Um, but I find even that would be like a way to throw a dart. So I think in short of all of this, I would just throw darts and experiment and get feedback of how does it feel for you in that and then what kind of external feedback are you getting and then that let that guide those next steps, which will ultimately lead you to what platform you should use or what message you should find.

And like I said, for me, I wasn’t looking for Forbes. I didn’t even want to be a blog writer. Um, I didn’t even intend to be a podcaster, but I, it was in my sharing, you know, and I remember saying to my then boyfriend, I want to start writing for Forbes. And he’s like, that’s random. And instead of me going in cold bitching, a bunch of Forbes editors, like a week later, I got an email that was like, uh, do you want to like write a guest post for us?

So that could also be another tool as well would be, you know, maybe even just reaching out to people and seeing where you could be a guest post on, but I would focus more on. The moment to moment, step one, and then let that get you to your step 10, um, like smaller bites are more digestible. I found,

David Andrew: you know, to your point, I have a friend who’s been practicing singing every day, putting out videos, doing things on Instagram.

And for a long time it was just silence and there wasn’t much happening. But this year it’s just come to the point where, I mean, he’s got this great tenor voice And along with that, he’s sharing his own authentic self about, you know, living, authentically and true to who you are. And now he’s getting hundreds of people adding him on Facebook every single day.

And I’m just walking alongside him going, you know what, here’s what we’re going to do, right? Here’s the next steps. And, uh, it’s such an exciting thing to see, but it’s true. You just, you don’t know. So throwing darts is right.

Jules: So good.

David Andrew: And are there any books that have helped you on your journey that you would recommend?

Jules: Yes. I love reading, um, different books. I think if you, um, the war of art is just a classic for those that haven’t read it. I really love that book. The alchemist, another great book, which is, you know, all about literally flow, recognizing signs and things like that. Um, another book that, um, I really have enjoyed, um, has been, um, the book ask by Ryan Levesque, and this is more of a business oriented book and really kind of talks about, I think, how to create in this new way, which is using questions.

And instead of trying to infer what people want or assume what people want, just talking to people, it’s like basic common sense, you know, like just asking people and getting their world. And then, you know, he details processes around surveying and how to do that. And that book for me, when I read it, I was like, wow.

That’s so logical. Why do people make marketing so hard? I was like, this is human nature. And so, um, for those of you that are a business, um, and even actually for musicians listening to this too, like, you know, to even know about your fans more and know about the people that are, um, tuning into you and supporting you, like just knowing how to ask the right questions and get that feedback is valuable.

David Andrew: Awesome. And I think Ryan Levesque, he’s been on my coach’s podcast a number of times and may have even been a student as well.

Well, this has been a fantastic interview. Thank you so much for your time and generosity. Is there anything else I should have asked?

Jules: I’ve loved being here. I think the last thing that I want to pass on is that it takes community. It’s taken community for me. To really find the next level of permission. I find that there’s been a lot of people in my life that have really wanted to support me. And sometimes the people even closest to you, they don’t get your vision and how could that it’s your vision.

And so for a long time I used to think, Well, people don’t get me and I am actually crazy. And then I realized I wasn’t actually finding support in the right places and that there can be people in your life that support you, even if it’s your significant other, even if it’s your coworker, even if it’s some of your really close friends that as you’re evolving and growing, having people that really get the you and who you’re becoming.

Um, is really important. And so if you’re lone wolfing it, no, you’re not alone. Um, if community is important to you or anything I’ve resonated you, like find us on iTunes, you know, come search out the unconventional life podcast. And if being in community matters, like I said, we do these events. Where we bring together these creatives and entrepreneurs and thought leaders, people that would never ordinarily intersect in the world, the lone wolves that are listening to podcasts in their living room or on their way to work that are just like hearing this, like, where are my people at?

And we do, we bring them together for five days in different places, like Nicaragua or Bali or South Africa, um, to actually like uplevel and create and in business and life together. And so yeah, unconventional life, you can check out those. We’ve got an event coming up in Bali. At the end of this year, we do them every year, unconventional life show.

com slash Bali for that, or unconventional life show. com for details. And, uh, if just on a personal level, like something that I said resonated to you, send me an email, like, let me know your story. I think this is part of our, our game in the world is to support each other and it’s through collaboration and seeing each other.

And actually allowing people to see you that can sometimes give you the fuel that you need to keep going the light when it seems dark in your world. And so no, um, we are lightworkers lighting up the grid together and, uh, we’re all, all here for each other.

David Andrew: That’s awesome. And very inspiring. I’m sure my listeners will get lots of value out of this, so thanks again.

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