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Why bother with social media? Is it even worth doing? And if you are going to do it anyway, wouldn’t you rather get results than not?

In this installation of Spark Infinity Office Hours, David illuminates how social media can bring real business value to an individual, creator, entrepreneur, or business.

Later, Jody and Karlo join the discussion to share what they’re getting from David’s presentation.

Sponsors:

• Productivity, Performance & Profits Blackbook: Get a free copy of the “Definitive Guide to Productivity for Artists and Entrepreneurs.”

Highlights:

00:17 – Why you shouldn’t get caught up in vanity metrics
01:06 – The importance of building connections
01:50 – The cruciality of growing your subscriber list
02:53 – Sales are highly valuable and desirable
03:39 – If you do this right, opportunities will come to you
04:34 – Mindset landmines you must circumvent and avoid
08:05 – Group discussion

Transcript:

David: Alright, welcome to Spark Infinity Office Hours. It is September 26th, 2024. Today’s topic is what’s the point of social media? Why do we do it?

Why Vanity Metrics Don’t Matter

If you are a creative or business oriented individual, you’re not doing social media for the vanity metrics. That’s things like likes and shares and comments and even follows.

They might make you feel good. They might stroke your ego. They might offer validation.

No judgment here. It feels good to feel good, but those don’t have any inherent business value.

There are two examples of people I know who are killing it without a major following. You can look them up yourself, James Schramko being one, Gary Spivey being another. They may not have massive followings, but in the background, they’ve got multimillion dollar businesses.

Okay, so what has business value on social media?

Connections – Your Net Worth is in Your Network

Number one is connections. If you really stop to think about it, most opportunities you’ve gotten to this point, including jobs, gigs, partnerships, any other opportunity you can think of, it’s not because of your talent, skills, or experience, which can be helpful, but it’s because of who you know. Your talents, skills, experience are valuable, but they’re secondary to relationship.

I can think back on gigs that I got paid $800 for as a guest guitarist. It’s not because of my skills. There were other people that could have filled those shoes, it’s because of who I knew.

And social media is a great way to build new connections. We’re not covering how to do that here. That could be a whole can of worms unto itself, but it is valuable.

And out of everything we’ll be talking about today, connections is probably the easiest thing to build. That’s of value.

Subscribers – an Asset You Own

Number two is subscribers.

And in this case, we’re not talking about YouTube subscribers, although that can be valuable because if you reach certain metrics, you can monetize your channel. I’m pretty sure TikTok works the same way.

But we’re talking about building your list, your email subscribers, preferably, but it could also be a text or SMS text message list that you’re building.

Unfortunately, you can lose followers for a variety of reasons. It could be because people don’t like you, which has happened. It could be because you’re shadow banned or demonetized or your account’s been deleted. You don’t get to keep the followers you have on social media unless you turn them into subscribers.

Your number one goal on social media, hopefully, is to turn people into subscribers. And then you can grow the relationship with those subscribers to the point where customers are sharing their mailing addresses with you.

This is kind of advanced, but if you can send them stuff, direct mail, thank you notes, birthday cards, maybe even the occasional book, you’re going to build a better relationship with that customer. They’re going to keep coming back and stay with you.

Sales – Cashflow Keeps the Creativity Alive

Number three, this could be the hardest thing to get on social media, but of course it is valuable when it happens. That is sales.

I dug up some stats on this that are really interesting. A good conversion rate on social media is two to five percent. So, for every 100 people that engage your content and take it seriously, two to five people should buy. But that has to be 100 really, truly engaged people.

And the monthly average conversion rate on Instagram is 19.7%, which outperforms Facebook and TikTok combined. For organic content creation and generating sales organically, Instagram pretty much outperforms all the others.

But this comes with the disclaimer or caveat that your mileage will vary based on your following, your reach, number of impressions you get, your industry and other factors.

Opportunity – They Come to You on Autopilot

I identified one more thing that could be a value on social media, and that’s opportunity.

This is what comes to you rather than what you go out there and generate.

Big followings, sometimes even small followings can land you free products and services, courses, coaching, watches, gigs, roles, sponsors, and more.

I’ve gotten free guitars to review and share. I’ve gotten free watches. I’ve gotten free keyboards. I’ve gotten free headphones. I’ve had many opportunities to promote other people’s products.

And the bigger your following is, if someone is doing an A to B comparison, “should we book this musician or that musician,” there’s a pretty good chance the person with the bigger following is going to be booked.

So having a following doesn’t have to be big, like I said, but a sizable following, whatever that means to the person evaluating you, because it’s really subjective, can be useful.

Mindset Traps You Must Navigate

I want to cover a few mindset traps because it’s really easy to get stuck in this whole social media game. Sometimes it feels like a grind and little else.

So here’s what to avoid or to recognize:

1. Giving up at the first sign of difficulty or challenge. Life has ebbs and flows. We all go through things. If you want to win someday, you’ve got to commit to continuing today. Today is really all that matters. I heard recently that when Joe Rogan was asked, “so what are you going to do with this podcast before he got his sponsorship with Spotify?” His answer was, “I don’t know. I’m just focused on getting better every day.” And then the $250 million deal comes through.
2. Constantly thinking about what you don’t have. This tends to keep you stuck where you are.
3. Being lazy in the way you connect with others. Templated messages are only useful if customized to the individual. For example, if you’re reaching out to Dave, don’t call him Bob. “Hey, Bob,” or “hey person,” or “hey” is even more impersonal. And a really good tip here would be to read – if you haven’t already – How to Win Friends and Influence People. You’ve got to customize your message. This is like pitching 101. You’ve got to think about the person you’re reaching out to, why it’s a benefit for them. Make the message about them, not about you, but also make your ask really clear.
4. Being more aggressive than you need to be. Now I think it’s really okay to share your offers with a sense of urgency and even to share them often. Just don’t let it become snake oil sales or spam or scams. That’s a good way to get unfollowed. I guess we’re not talking to the crowd that’s less ethical in their approach to social media and sales in general, but I think it’s good to have this as a value – honesty and integrity – when promoting your stuff. Promote your stuff often. Just don’t be so aggressive that you’re like, “okay, whatever, I’m just going to throw this out there and bait people.”
5. Having to know everything. You don’t need to know anything. You don’t need to know your mission or purpose. You don’t even need to know what you’re building towards. All you’ve got to do is start, keep moving, improve, enjoy the journey and things will show up. That goes back to the Joe Rogan example from earlier as well. Have fun, strive for improvement, or commit to improvement, and that’s it. Eventually everything will start to show up if you act with that level of trust.
6. Trying to do everything perfectly. This is something everyone here at Spark Infinity should be quite familiar with already. Bottom line is messiness on social media is practically expected. Misspellings, grammatical errors, and low-quality videos can sometimes boost engagement because people comment saying, “oh, there’s an error in your post.” So, authenticity and showing up is what matters.
7. Expecting success to hit you over the head. Chances are it will take time. I think there are people who can do it fast. I’m not advocating doing it slow, but it may take six months. It may take a year. And for some people, it might take three to five years. And for others, it might take five to ten years. If you’re focused on what you’re not getting right now, some of the other mindset traps that we talked about, then it will be really easy to give up. But if you focus on daily improvement, becoming better at what you do in your craft, then things will naturally begin to show up.

Follow Along – Join Us on This Journey

As always, don’t forget to follow me on Instagram: @DavidAndrewWiebe.

Group Discussion

What did you get from this, Karlo?

Karlo: For me, it’s a practice. I’ve got to get myself out there now that I have this new reiki and tarot venture. So, it’s time to spend some time and create some content.

David: You’ve put some effort into sharing your offer, building your website, ads and stuff like that. So now your thinking is, in addition to that, adding some content into the mix to support your efforts.

Karlo: Yeah.

David: Do you have thoughts on what sort of content you would create?

Karlo: I’d probably do like little clearings, you know, like a little energy clearing in the video. Maybe pull a card or two. That sort of thing.

David: How about you, Jody?

Jody: I think what I’m seeing is clarity. A little while ago something came up in my feed and it was, “don’t overthink it, just create it” kind of thing.

It goes back to the old Andy Warhol saying, right? Where it’s like, just do it. Like create the art and let people figure it out on their own. And don’t think about it. Mic drop it, walk away, do your thing. Just keep being yourself.

I think the authenticity is an overused word in a sense, but people are really, it seems like engaged with the genuine aspect of life at the moment. So, it’s like when we can be genuine and honest. Like you said, with the honesty and integrity, which it led me to, what are your intentions behind it with social media?

I think when our intentions don’t align with what we’re up to, then it’s inauthentic and it’s seen quite quickly. And it might not be intentional. It’s just that sometimes I think you might relate to… or other creators out there might relate to the creative mind. As you get into something, you get really passionate about it.

And then you’re like, “it’s going to be the next best thing.” And yeah, you might have that thought, but it’s like, it doesn’t mean it can’t. It’s just like the setting it up with all the correct or effective steps along the way, I think is what I’m seeing.

Like I saw another thing recently too, which we all touched based on too, is quality over quantity. And you’ll see that a lot through Hook Point posts with Brendan Kane. If you follow him at all, he’s doing a lot.

And like you said, it’s a small or a big following that can create new opportunities. How are we planting those seeds with intention and growth in mind?

So our posts aren’t – like you said – snake oil sales. And I really like pushing art and it’s hard for me to sometimes simplify because I’m like innovating. I like to simplify, but it’s like at the same time, there’s so many levels, like we know in a client that there’s like the visual, the auditory and the like tangible steps. So, it’s like, sometimes it’s hard to do that in a digital format and have people stop and engage within what you’re up to.

Cause engagement, I feel for me is what matters. If somebody likes something, I don’t really care, but a comment is like way more for me. I’m like, oh yes.

Like that hit, you know, that’s a win. And then what did you do in that aspect? Can you recreate it and continue to move forward in that way?

And I think that’s where Hook Point leads in, which I’m looking forward to reading at one point here, but I just rebuilt my website. And I’m looking at all the things for clients to make it super simple for them and authentic or genuine.

So how did my journey go? Like, where did it take me and where am I now? And where I’m at now with clients is I just want to hang out and have fun. I’m 45 and like at an age, like I use age sometimes as a way to look at life and where I’ve come from, I guess.

There’s a point in life where it’s like, “if I’m doing social media and I don’t have anything from it, then why am I doing it?” Like, if it doesn’t bring me joy or happiness at this point, I don’t really want it in my life. Like if it’s stressing me out in it.

So, can we look at it differently than that, I guess is one of the things as well.

David: One of the things, at least for me this year, like this has been a gigantic experiment in seeing if away from any kind of brand, like Music Entrepreneur HQ, which I created, will people still follow and be interested in what I’m doing? And I still don’t have a conclusive answer because to an extent people may have been following my content and not me so much. Whereas now I’m kind of more out in the open, letting myself be who I am.

And I have to tell you that what my intuition is saying to create is so much different than what I might be inclined to create otherwise.

Every time I interview someone, I’m reminded that it’s amazing and it’s fun to do and you make a new connection and that leads to opportunity. And I think that’s something well worth keeping.

But just creating business-oriented content… I’m starting to think about crazy things around video game reviews, which I used to do, or making guitar videos and then testing to see if that’s something people would still follow me in spite of it being so drastically different. And maybe it’s not drastically different because I used to do it.

So, is that more authentic than creating business-based content? I don’t have the answer. I’m just speculating.

Jody: Yeah, I think the speculation is great because the thing is exactly like you said, it’s like, my friend always says it. “Could you put it in a shoebox” in a sense though? Like, would it all be under the same head or would you be able to put it in a shoebox and put that over here and put this over here and put that over there, you know?

If you’re doing business, like, can you filter everything through one thing? I don’t know, unless you’re established enough, like Joe Rogan, you don’t see him doing like guitar and things.

I have this issue as well, which is like, I love doing a lot of things, but are you great at everything? This is a good question, right?

So when you see a lot of these people, like Howard Stern or Joe Rogan, or Howard Stern just came to mind because he’s like so long in the running, right? But you see like Jimmy Fallon or you see like a lot of the time, they’re going to be doing one thing like The Tonight Show and then they’re going to be making appearances somewhere else with something else, but it’s related to that in a sense of where he’s established his voice.

So it’s like, what voice are we speaking with at that specific time and how does it impact how much work goes and has to go into it? Because I’ve also looked at that as well as like, do I want to be managing like four social channels?

David: Yeah. And that was a no for me. I knew I wasn’t going to do that.

Jody: You know, it’s almost easy now when it comes to those things, because it’s like, is it just taking me on a tangent? Like you can still share that in part your stories and then link it to your highlight and then it’s not in your feed, but you’re mainly business and then those are your life. That’s how I’ve kind of seen it, possibility of connecting it.

Like if I go for a mountain bike ride and I’m about music and there isn’t a full connection there, it’s not really effective in the grand scheme of things. So that’s kind of like what I did see through doing a social media run for the last few months is sharing effectively, like you’ve been doing in a sense with the wording, at least you know what you’re about.

David: Yeah. It’s really steady, right? Like I’ve been talking about pretty much nothing but productivity. And some of the topics may appear somewhat ancillary or corollary to it, but I would say it all ties in.

Even if I’m talking about pitching, I’m talking about pitching in a better way that would be more productive. So ,everything’s been filtered through that lens because of the Productivity, Performance & Profits Blackbook.

I’ve still been launching other books in the background that I have not been sharing or promoting as heavily and maybe that’s the way it’ll continue to work. I don’t really know, but that’s the experiment for now.

Jody: Yeah. And I think that’s the thing we talked about it too.

I’ve been doing a TikTok on the side as well, just like the channel, what I’ve been posting on Instagram and then kind of feeding it over to TikTok just to see what the engagement difference is.

And that’s just to like watch it. Like what if I post this here on Instagram, I post this on TikTok, like which one hits and what’s the engagement.

And it’s truly neat in a sense, even just watching the followers, the likes and the engagement seems a lot more on TikTok. Even if it’s like somebody making a comment or a thumbs up, that’s more engaging. Whereas on Instagram, it doesn’t feel like that.

You have more followers, but way less engagement. And on TikTok, I have like eight followers and way more engagement.

David: I agree.

Jody: It’s so weird.

David: It’s way easier to get views on TikTok still. I don’t know if it’s going to stay that way forever, but maybe. And even with that, do any of those people do anything?

Because… the stats show at least, we don’t really know, but TikTok’s conversion rate is far inferior to that of Instagram.

Jody: Yes. But that’s the thing is like, it’s not so much about views for me as I was sharing just more about the engagements, like the actual people leaving a comment or like actually engaging with the post.

Whereas on Instagram, it seems like it’s all, you have like, let’s say, 1,000 people following, like you said, and it’s like, X amount of people, maybe there’s likes, but it just doesn’t seem as impactful, which is weird.

But that’s me. That’s my point of view, right?

David: You know, and I talked about vanity metrics today, but I definitely wouldn’t deride anybody for wanting more of that. And I don’t think it’s a bad thing either because at the end of the day, I’m also watching like, okay, so 300 people liked the post, but did anybody comment or share it? Because I feel like that’s kind of the true measure of whether there’s real engagement there.

Otherwise, I’m kind of left wondering, okay, 300 likes is great, but did anyone get anything from it or appreciate it or share it or want to do something with it? So I’m totally with you.

Jody: And I’m wondering, as you’re sharing that, what I was seeing is that I often like things more than I comment. Absolutely. So I think it’s almost like you can do it anonymously.

You can drop it out there and it’s like out into the ethos and like it, but when you comment on it, it’s like almost like you’re accountable to what you said. So it’s like, ah, interesting. Like, yeah, it’s more personal.

So I think maybe that’s it, is like you have to make more of a personal connection, which is a good observation in some aspects.

David: When I was doing digital marketing as a career or job, I definitely made it a point that if I found a blog post and I got value from it, I’d leave a comment thanking the author. And I would try to put together something thoughtful, right? Not just like “great post 🔥” because that can really just drive you nuts too. But actually saying something and commenting on something they said or something they missed or here’s what I liked about your post. And I was a lot more intentional about that. And I think there’s value in that.

And not to think of it too concretely as marketing, but leaving comments on your favorite books on Amazon, leaving comments on YouTube videos you liked, leaving comments on Instagram posts, it can all add up in terms of visibility.

And really the number one thing we talked about is connections, it can help build that. I’ve heard so many people just reach out to someone. They’re like, they’ve been watching and following for a while and say, “look, I really loved your new book, man. Thanks so much for putting that out.” And the person on the receiving end was huge, but they were still not expecting to receive a message from that person. And they were like, “you like my book? That’s insane.”

So I think it’s that. Celebrating other people’s accomplishments can be huge too in the connection department.

Jody: Yeah. I see like one thing, post that’s been doing that a lot lately. And it’s like this little ghosty post that’s like, oh, it’s like inspirational quotes, but it’s like done with these little drawings and super impactful.

And a lot of the time it is exactly saying that, like, you know, go below and just lift somebody up. And I’m like, yeah, I like doing that. Cause it’s like, that’s how life should be.

It shouldn’t just be so linear. It’s all about getting, which is kind of what we feel like sometimes. I think within marketing, I was more exposed to it via billboards, magazines, or things like that.

You actually had to like go and get it, you know, like TV was there, but at least I could shut the TV off and go outside and there was no marketing. Like other than billboards somewhere, but like coming from a small town, it’s like, there wasn’t a ton of marketing other than like skate shops and things like that, that might be promoting your favorite skateboarder or something like that, you know?

And that was cause it was usually connected to like a skateboard magazine that you had to tangibly go by to be exposed to more content.

And I think there’s a missing in it being so readily available. It’s like an over-processing for our human mind. That, you know, it’s like when I opened that, there’s a tangibility to like picking it up and going through the pages, and on being in that, somebody took time to create it and put it in a physical form for me to enjoy it. And I haven’t done that in a while.

Like I haven’t bought a magazine. I buy books, but I don’t really buy magazines anymore cause it’s all online. So it’s like, I hear you.

What, what, what? Like I get it on my Apple news.

Karlo: Magazines take up space. And I know I stopped buying magazines because they clutter up the space and eventually all adds up. And then it’s like, ugh.

Jody: I have boxes of them in my garage that are just there. Might never look at them again, but they’re still there. Cause I was like, “Oh, they’re cool articles” and stuff.

Karlo: Yeah. Same way. But I don’t read this anymore. So I just end up possibly recycling and that’s about it.

David: But they must do okay. Because otherwise, I don’t think they would still be carried at places like Shoppers Drug Mart or other stores or Chapters or Indigo. I guess it’s Indigo now.

So they must be doing okay. There’s an audience there that still buys magazines. And it could be that’s actually 45 or 50 and up people, but yeah, we don’t know.

It’s the same thing with radio, right? It really would not exist if there weren’t still listeners.

Jody: Yeah. And not still advertisers and, all that kind of stuff. And that’s all from the listener base.

I mean, if I rode my bike down the street by a couple of construction sites and they still do the outward music. They still have a boom box. They’re still broadcasting to the whole neighborhood, with their music.

And I’m like, yeah, that would never be me. I just can’t stand all the advertising, but it’s like, you know, make a playlist, and from back in the day, it would still walk me into my back pocket, you know, headphones. I just wasn’t that kind of person other than when I was mowing the lawn, I had speakers put in the front, you know, windows of the house and tracked up the lawn. And we couldn’t have a Walkman.

David: Another thing that made me think of, I think this is why like social media groups, common interest groups have risen in popularity again, because people don’t have that sense of community like they did before.

Our friend Amos Bracewell is doing incredible work with Facebook groups now and built his own, teaching other people how to grow hyper fast, how to monetize, the whole works. It is just doing phenomenal because it really brings community to the fore.

And the way he’s approaching it is really about, he’s making it about other people, not himself. So that’s one of the things that I see as well. And it’s such a big contrast to “Here’s my Instagram profile. Follow me. I’m cool. Look at the stuff I’m doing.”

It’s way different than having a group where everyone can participate, contribute, be in the spotlight, that kind of thing.

Jody: You’re giving me a lot of ideas because I think I’m noticing that I’m living in the fear-based past in a lot of places. Afraid to go out, and make those connections again for fear of repeating the process of what seemed like success and failure at the same time. I don’t know if that makes sense, but like you really… I did a lot out there in the world, but then the reception of it wasn’t right at times.

So it’s like you’re going like how to recreate this new phase of my life at this stage moving forward into the future where there’s impact and the intention is received. Like the reciprocity is there, and I think a lot of it in some aspects nowadays, it seems like when you’re rebuilding or building, because you rebuild with the skills of your past to build now. So it’s not in a sense rebuilding, it’s building newly what’s coming ahead.

For me, it would be like hair education or something, you know? What I’m seeing is the offer point. It seems like there’s a lot of value in it as long as you pitch. I don’t want to say the word pitch, but as long as you present it accordingly.

Whereas if you’re approaching a salon, let’s say, “hey, you know, like I’d love to maybe offer four courses, four different dates to four different salons” and what you’re asking for is a review. And you limit the amount of people in that class or whatever, right? Like just like this group.

But yeah, you give something away and in turn, those reviews help gain you some notoriety and then build from there. Because I think that’s all it really is, right?

Because you don’t need a big following to impact largely. You can still do that by getting a great X review on whatever it might be, you know?

So yeah, it’s neat to see and, you know, even our approach today, like setting up the group and being like, there’s a topic I was like, it gave me that energy to be here, you know?

So yeah, man, it’s a lot of good creative progress, I think in so many ways with a lot of different things. So it’s really cool.

David: I do relate to what you’re saying because, on some level, I feel like “Have I gotten a little bit lazy on my outreach?” Like I love doing interviews and they go really well. And it’s not like… I have so much experience that I don’t have to spend days preparing for even someone well-known or especially accomplished to have a great conversation and capture it and put it out there.

I’m energized when I do it. I’m energized when I do it, but I’m tired of thinking about it. I don’t want to think about it.

Jody: Well, even this, like you posting this and me being able to capture a portion of it, at least got me engaged, for X amount of time, which is awesome.

David: I’m happy to hear that. And it’s really OK if like people drop off where they drop off. The bottom line is there’s the presentation aspect of it, which is the informational. And then there’s the personal and the real human side of it, which is the discussion like we’re doing right now. And I find value in both.

You know this as well as I do, stories and marketing are the most powerful thing.

And I don’t even know if you need to think about it as quote-unquote “marketing,” as it were. But stories can apply to so many… One story can apply to so many different morals that it can really only help you in conveying what you’re about and who you are.

Sounds like we’re complete for today. But anything else, Karlo? Anything else, Jody?

Jody: No, I’m complete. That’s great. It’s impactful and quick and very effective, I think.

Karlo: for me, it just gets me present to what I want to create with myself out there, like, especially with the new venture with the Reiki and the Tarot being re-established. Yeah, definitely take some time to create some content that will last me for like a week or so. And then, you know, scheduled to like put it out there.

That’s that’s what I’m present to right now. So just getting back to basics and getting things started all over again and creating the content. It doesn’t have to be perfect.

David: That’s what I like to hear. I think that’s what we’re here for, right?

Jody: I think speculation lately is great. Just as we close there, Karlo. Thank you for that.

It’s just like it’s neat to see like speculating on proposing things newly and uniquely rather than them being the exact same formats, maybe even of the past. Like if you’re delivering something in a specific way, I mean, it’s inspirational to even hear you talking more about it, Karlo, because sometimes it’s hard to get it out there, you know? So it’s neat to see that you’re working on it, and you’re taking that step.

And I think it’s neat to see you speculating on, oh, like we’re not just stuck in that place of this didn’t work because where we came from, where we started, and where we are now is completely different from where we came from in the very beginning. We were kind of fumbling around a bit more. So it’s neat to even see the clarity in that and how easily this group connects and communicates.

And there’s not that nervousness or awkwardness that maybe was in the beginning. And that’s a celebration in its own right, to see the connection between three people. We did an event together. We’ve like been on, you know, Zoom calls for two years, on and off. And it’s like it’s really neat to see like, you know, we’ve taken and swung out into the world and made new connections, even though they weren’t exactly what we wanted them to be at times. It was still there and we made an impact.

So it’s really neat. And that’s something worth acknowledging.

David: Absolutely. And I’ll also put it out there. Like, I really didn’t want my personal life to spill out. But when we first started this thing, I was in such bad shape physically, like so burnt out.

Jody: Yeah, man, that’s what I mean. It’s like it’s when we can put those things aside is where we can have the breakthroughs and continue to grow and gain that confidence to get back out there. And it’s like, I’m glad we have this.

David: Me too. I’m really grateful that we’ve been able to continue to connect this way.

Jody: It’s fall. It sure is dark. I need a cozy, ready to warm up.

David: All right. Well, thanks, guys. We’ll be back next week with another Spark Infinity.

Jody: Rock and roll.